Adnan Oktar's live TV conversation with Masonic Delegation (24 October, 2010)

OKTAR BABUNA:Yes, our guests have also joined our program with Mr. Adnan Oktar. These are our freemason guests masha'Allah. Yes, Mr. Sadun...

ADNAN OKTAR:Please introduce our guests.

ALI SADUN ENGIN: On my right, Mr. Robert Herd, he is 32nd degree Templar, freemason and coming from Coloroda, US. And the gentleman sitting next to me is Mr. Peter Taylor, he is coming from Scotland. He is 32nd degree freemason in Scottish Rite insha'Allah.

ADNAN OKTAR:Masha'Allah, how are you?

PETER TAYLOR:We are fine, thank you.

ADNAN OKTAR:Masha'Allah. What did you do today?

PETER TAYLOR: Today we've been touring, we visited the Blue Mosque, we witnessed some of the prayers. We were very pleased to be in the presence of God in such a wonderful setting, we received from Brother Ali some education from the Quran, some prayer, some translation from the prayers, and it was very enlightening, and very educational.

ADNAN OKTAR:Masha'Allah. What else happened today Sadun? Were you with them?

ALI SADUN ENGIN: Yes, I was with them insha'Allah. We visited many places insha'Allah. We made a tour of Bosphorous on the yacht. We looked at the historical structures around. They showed the masonic symbols on all the historical structures insha'Allah. Moreover they had the opportunity to know the Islamic culture closely. They enjoyed it very much insha'Allah.

ADNAN OKTAR:This century is very significant for Freemasonry, Templars, Christianity, Islam and Judaism, a very important century. This is the last century. This is the century in which the world will become brothers. A century in which the whole world will be within the Islamic Union, living the Golden Age, modern, loving, understanding and at its peak in art and science; a century in which everyone loves one another, looks out for one another and considerate to the others and is open to all ideas. It will be a delightful century in which the morality of Islam embraces the entire world warmly insha'Allah. And it will be the last global sovereignty. We have now entered the time of the last global dominion that has been expected for thousands of years. We thank Allah for your being in such a period and us being in such a period.

ALI SADUN ENGIN: Insha'Allah. The gentleman sitting next to me wore a Turkish-Islamic Union t-shirt today.

ADNAN OKTAR:Masha'Allah. Really?

ALI SADUN ENGIN: They took photos with Brother Altuğ with their Turkish-Islamic Union t-shirts on, meaning they want it to happen.

ADNAN OKTAR:Masha'Allah.

GUESTS: Yes, yes. Indeed.

ROBERT HERD:We as Masons, are seeking other seekers and lovers of God as well, and in this we have found Muslims, we have found Jews, and we have found new brothers, and it is very very important to us for this last century to collect each other and come together.

ADNAN OKTAR:The main reason for all the troubles that the world faced till now is strictness, bigotry and lack of understanding. It happens because people of different thoughts use force, humiliate, and oppress other people having opposing ideas to convince them to accept their own. However, ideas should be put forth through love, glorifying their honor and addressing to their minds, and to their hearts.

ROBERT HERD:Yes in all of our countries.

ADNAN OKTAR:For instance when Jesus, the Messiah (pbuh) returns, his main weapon will be love during his communication of Islam to the entire world. He will never bring forth pressure, oppression, and horridness. He will make Islam prevail through love, compassion, endear, getting through the mind, making people approve by heart and conscience. Insha'Allah.

ADNAN OKTAR:It is very important for a person to think freely. Under pressure, one loses his humane qualities. When a  freethinking person, which is what the Qur'an asks for,  has faith, his faith is very acceptable. But a forced faith would bring about hypocricy and insincerity. That would cause a person to be two-faced.

PETER TAYLOR:Yes.

ROBERT HERD:We believe not only freedom but equality as well.

ADNAN OKTAR:Of course, certainly. The unbelievers should also be given the same humane rights. Christians, Muslims, and Jews should all be given the same rights. The idea of seeing people as the 2nd class citizen, 3rd class citizen ruined this world so far.

GUESTS: Yes, indeed.

ADNAN OKTAR:When people see something wise, something beautiful, something right, with all the evidence, they become convinced. That is what the Prophet Jesus (pbuh) will do. He will convince us about Islam. He will convince the whole humanity, the entire world in Islam. I mean the humanity when I said "us", because we are already Muslims.

ROBERT HERD:Believers believe in their heart and they see in their heart, but some people, the non-believers must see with their eyes and their minds first, where we see with our hearts first.

ADNAN OKTAR:Yes, certainly. We call it ilm al-yaqin (knowledge of certainty) when it is seen by the eye, approved by mind and wisdom, and confirmed by heart. One would attain a very strong faith by that. I mean when one sees through the eye, approves by his mind and accepts by heart, the perfect form of iman (faith) would be attained.

PETER TAYLOR:Yes , Yes, in a rational way, yes.

ADNAN OKTAR:For example, as you know, beehive and bee are symbols in freemasonry.

PETER TAYLOR: We use the "bee" in freemasonry as a symbol of industry, of work, of action, without that work, without that action, and that labor then we will not get closer to God, we accomplish nothing, we understand that the labor is the lot of man, and we put our beliefs into action and that way preparing ourselves to be closer to God in the End Times.

ADNAN OKTAR:Yes, for instance when we scientifically observe the life of a bee, we are faced with a breathtaking magnificence. Both the architectural technique in the building of those honeycombs and the superior technology in the production of honey; and there is also the beewax coming from underneath its body, the beewax plates, the fact that it informs its friends of the location and direction of the far away flowers through a dange and some figures, that there are two bees on unceasing guard at the door welcoming the visitors, the ventilation and maintenance of the hive, the nursing of the little ones, the young bees, their nutrition with royal jelly, when we observe all these wonders with wisdom, when our hearts affirms what we see with our eyes, then a deep faith flourishes in our hearts. Freemasonry makes an indication also to this.

ALI SADUN ENGIN: Masha'Allah.

ADNAN OKTAR:Yes.

ROBERT HERD:Very much so. And we see many instances of the reflection of God in nature, in animals, in just all living beings.

PETER TAYLOR: In the world all around us, in the world around us, we see God everwhere.

ROBERT HERD: Flowers; they show us the geometry of the Grand Master.

ADNAN OKTAR:For instance, the golden ratio, that there is symmetry in everything, this is described in freemasonry with geometrical figures, but of course to the one looking with such an eye. Someone looking with a materialistic view can not see this. But those looking into this though the eyes of faith, though the eyes of belief, like yourselves, see this. That is to say freemasonry is a school open to interpretation. If you look with faith, it serves faith. But if you look with the view of an unbeliever, of atheism, it serves atheism. The beautiful side of you is that you are evaluating it with faith and you are determined to use it for faith. This is something splendid.

ALI SADUN ENGIN: Masha'Allah.

ROBERT HERD:Yes, thank you. We see it parallel with Muslims seeing it also, we see them use the shape of a honeycomb to build their structures stronger. We saw that in the floor of the mosque, the honeycomb on the floor, and they learn from that also in parallel with Masons.

ADNAN OKTAR:Naturally we support the religious freemasonry against the atheistic freemasonry to the fullest.

GUESTS: Yes. O yes.

PETER TAYLOR: We as we would call ourselves regular masons, are by far the biggest group of freemasons and we do not recognize at all any group who call themselves freemasons who do not believe in God who admit people who do not believe in God, the Supreme Being. The first and foremost requirement for admission to our order is a belief in God and the first question asked in an initiate is; "in whom does he place his trust?" and his answer must be "in God". There is no way other, that is it.

ADNAN OKTAR:It might be that the Templars are focusing on faith, but atheism is very common in atheist French freemasons and English freemasons. This is a fact we know and see for sure. Since when we examine their books they are openly supporting Darwinism and materialism and denying belief in Allah. However, in Templars, in those friends of ours, the inclination towards religion, even to Islam is clearly seen.

ROBERT HERD:With France, they do not require from all a belief in God and they removed what we would call the volume of Sacred Law from their altar, which is a Bible, or a Quran or any Holy Book, when they removed that, our regular masons across the world removed recognition from them and said "we will not recognize you until you replace that, ever."

ADNAN OKTAR:But with a strong attack we will save them also insha'Allah.

PETER TAYLOR: We hope so, we hope so too, We hope we can save them too.

ADNAN OKTAR:We can not let them be on their own insha'Alllah.

Briefly everything will be very beautiful. We hope that our cooperation gets stronger insha'Allah. Let us struggle all together for the sovereignty of the beautiful and the truth in the world, for the spreading of love of Allah, of the faith in the Oneness of Allah, of the belief in the Hereafter. When the Prophet Jesus, the Messiah (pbuh) comes, there will be a perfect atmosphere anyway. The religion of Islam will dominate the entire world insha'Allah.

ALI SADUN ENGIN:Insha'Allah.

ADNAN OKTAR:Now let us give a little break and send off our guests. We will continue in a while insha'Allah.

OKTAR BABUNA: We will have a short break and after that Mr.Oktar will continue.

ADNAN OKTAR: Look, here you see almost everyone you have seen here before. These are The Templars, 33rd degree Freemasons. You see that they are all together performing prayers at the mosque.

PRESENTER: Masha'Allah.

OKTAR BABUNA:Masha'Allah.

ADNAN OKTAR:They have performed prayers along with the community. They have performed their ablution according to the customs. Masha'Allah this is a great miracle. This is a very splendid thing masha'Allah.

OKTAR BABUNA:Masha'Allah. They have performed prayers in their previous visit as well Master. You do know better insha'Allah.

ADNAN OKTAR:Masha'Allah. They have a profound admiration towards Islam, they have great affection. They just do not want bigotry. And that is okay, Masha'Allah.

OKTAR BABUNA: Masha'Allah. But they have all said that you became instrumental in them attaining this masha'Allah.

ADNAN OKTAR: Masha'Allah. Alhamdulillah. Which mosque is this?

OKTAR BABUNA:The Little Hagia Sophia.

ADNAN OKTAR: The Little Hagia Sophia. Masha'Allah. Masha'Allah. Okay that is enough for now.

ADNAN OKTAR: Masha'Allah they have been saying "Master, why are you meeting with Freemasons?" My brother, you become the means to that as well. See that I have become instrumental in their performing prayers alhamdulillah. They have all obtained copies of the Qur'an. They are looking into it. And what's more they have started to memorize the verses. Masha'Allah.

PRESENTER:Masha'Allah.

OKTAR BABUNA:Masha'Allah.

ADNAN OKTAR:Many of them have memorized Qur'anic verses.

OKTAR BABUNA:Masha'Allah. May Allah be pleased with you Master, yes.

ADNAN OKTAR: Last night they have been talking about the Qur'an up until 4 o'clock in the morning. See that, the eyes of the Evangelical one was filled with tears when he heard the verses of the Qur'an.

OKTAR BABUNA:Yes. Yes, Master.

ADNAN OKTAR:Masha'Allah. How nice.

OKTAR BABUNA:He said when he saw your books his eyes were filled with tears. And he said that he had kneeled down and thanked Allah when he saw the titles of your books, he said.

ADNAN OKTAR:Masha'Allah. Where did he see them?

OKTAR BABUNA:In the gift boxes, they were given to them in the hotel. He said "I opened them and only looked through the titles and my eyes were filled with tears so I dropped down to my knees and thanked Allah."

ADNAN OKTAR:Who gave them the gifts?

OKTAR BABUNA: Our friends.

ADNAN OKTAR: Alright masha'Allah. Alhamdulillah.